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A Christian’s Case Against Obama
Posted: 03 July 2008 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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There have been some very interesting answers on these threads lately, so I will lay out the reasons I feel a Christian can not support a candidate who supports anti-Christian views in every aspect that deals with ethics (ex. abortion, gay rights).  First of all, let’s define what a Christian is.  To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like.  It means you become defined not by your flesh, but by the One who lives inside you (I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.Galatians 2:19-21).  Now, if we are dead to self and alive in Christ as this passage and many others suggest, then do we not support the ethics and morals of Christ and reject the things that God despises?  I think we have to if we are indeed Christians.  There are certain core issues dealing with ethics that are at stake in this election.  Let’s look at “two of the biggies.”

Abortion- Obama is an avid supporter of abortion under any circumstances and no matter how far along in the pregnancy the mother is.  Basically, if it has not been born yet, go ahead and kill it.  Its not human or its not alive.  He and other liberals justify this position by saying life does not begin until birth.  So at 8 months, if the mother decides she does not want the baby on a whim, well abort it.  Another argument is, it can not live outside of the mother’s womd, so technically it is not fully developed.  Well, I was born six weeks early ( at 7 1/2 months) and my lungs were not fully developed.  I am no less human and was no less alive than any baby carried to full term.  Did my life not count until my due date?  As Christians, we believe that life begins at conception.  Scripture even tell us this (“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”) in Jeremiah.  If we as Christians believe this, then there is only one way to look at abortion and that is murder.  To support a candidate who so vigorously supports abortion is to become an accomplice to murder.

Gay Rights- Obama, according to his wife Michelle, seeks to overturn or repeal The Defense of Marriage Act.  Furthermore, he has gone as far as to try to twist the Sermon on the Mount to back up his support for civil unions.  Can we say “BLASPHEMY” any louder?  As a Christian, we believe marriage to be an institution ordained by God and to be exclusively between one man and one woman.  Supporting a candidate that supports gay rights so heavily is to throw your support behind the gay and lesbian movement yourself.

Now, are you really a Christian if you do not strive to reflect Christ in everything, including who you choose to vote for?  Can you go to an alter, pray for forgiveness and accept the gift of grace and then turn around two years later, decide you know better for your life than God does, reject His word and live by the flesh and still call yourself a Christian?  Here is another question.  Can a Christian decide to reflect Christ in every aspect of their life except in their voting, throwing their support behind a candidate that is very much anti-Christian in his views and voting record.  I do not want this to turn into a theological debate, however I do want to know how anyone who calls themselves a Christian can support anti-Christian views.

Just a quick side note:  I do not believe there is anything you can do to “earn” salvation.  The price was to great for any of us to bare, so Jesus paid that price on the cross.  God has given us the freedom or free will to accept or reject that salvation. Therefor, I do not believe that you can “lose” your salvation but you do have the free will to reject it, even after that conversion experience, (stories of King David and even the story of Judas comes to mind).  God does not force you to follow Him.  When we accept that gift of grace, our lives change.  Are we perfect, no!  Our flesh will still make mistakes.  But the One who lives inside of us is perfect.  If we start reflecting Him in our lives, then we will be less likely to make a calculated decision (vote) to support anything that He would reject.  A vote is a decision.  It is something you think about (or should think about) before making.  You should not be able to look back at a vote and say “Oops, I made a mistake.”  “I just wasn’t thinking.”  To many of us do.  We better compare the two candidates we have to choose from and see who we are more in line with on morality issues way before we start worrying about the “political” aspects of the campaign.  We need to get informed on issues as much as possible so we can make the best decisions we can based on the information.  After all, the political aspects are now infringing into the very foundations of our morality.  It is no longer just an issue of politics.

[ Edited: 16 July 2008 09:29 PM by Susan Unthank]
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Posted: 04 July 2008 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Well said, and a big Amen

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Posted: 04 July 2008 04:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

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Posted: 04 July 2008 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

LOL I’m still laughing.  Maybe you should take a class on Hermeneutics.  You can take individual scriptures all day long and use them out of context to fit whatever you want.  This test assumes its the goverments role to carry out these particular scriptures and twist them out of context.  Nice try though.  My suggestion is go read the Bible, learn how to read in context, and then see if Obama represents anything remotely similar to the themes in scripture.  I believe you will be the one surprised.  Have a nice day!

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Posted: 04 July 2008 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

ROFLOL, that is funny. Great Liberal spin and nothing like what Conservatives think.

Somewhere that scripture that says if a man doesn’t work he doesn’t eat got left out. LOL

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Posted: 09 July 2008 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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I over heard a very interesting conversation in the elevator this morning.  2 very liberal co-workers were talking and one was furious.  His statement ‘how could they do this to us??? I just don’t understand, have you looked at his voting record?’  The other guy said ‘no, not really’.  He said ‘80% of the time he is just marked ‘present’ he doesn’t even vote’.  I don’t want to vote for McCain, I don’t LIKE McCain, I’ve never voted for a Republican but how do I vote for man that does stand for ANYTHING? I can vote for someone who stands for things I dislike better than someone who doesn’t even take a stand.’

Wow!

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Posted: 10 July 2008 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

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Posted: 10 July 2008 11:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

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Posted: 10 July 2008 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

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Posted: 10 July 2008 12:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:32 PM
SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.  rolleyes

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Some people are like Slinkys…  Not really good for anything, but they
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Posted: 10 July 2008 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Now that is an excellent post!!!!!

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Some people are like Slinkys…  Not really good for anything, but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs -  Author Unknown

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Posted: 10 July 2008 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Deon Unthank - 10 July 2008 12:54 PM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:32 PM
SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.  rolleyes

Sez the person that support the party of Ted Haggard…and that “wide stance” dude.. LOL

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I’ve got soul-ar energy from the Son!
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Posted: 10 July 2008 01:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:59 PM
Deon Unthank - 10 July 2008 12:54 PM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:32 PM
SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.  rolleyes

Sez the person that support the party of Ted Haggard…and that “wide stance” dude.. LOL

Ted Haggard??????? He’s a fallen preacher, what’s he got to do with anything?

It’s your party that is anti-life and pro-gay. It’s the leaders of your party propagating abortion and the gay lifestyle.

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still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs -  Author Unknown

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Posted: 10 July 2008 04:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:32 PM
SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

They are not the defining characteristic of Christianity, but our stance on those issues do speak to the core of who we are and whether or not we are reflecting the image of a God who loves us and knew us before we were born.  The defining characteristics of Christianity are those that reflect the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  It is totally fair to ask how God feels about such issues as abortion and gay rights.  The evidence is in His Word.  Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable. cool smirk

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Posted: 13 July 2008 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Yeah…right. This poll gives the maximum “Jesus points” to heavy taxation for “Matthew 19:21 Sell that thou hast and give to the poor”

Um…the verse doesn’t say, “Give your money to a bloated government that will waste 90% of it before getting a few dollars to the people who have managed to fool the government into thinking they’re poor while actual poor people continue to live in squalor.”

It says to give TO the poor.

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Posted: 15 July 2008 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Deon Unthank - 10 July 2008 01:30 PM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:59 PM
Deon Unthank - 10 July 2008 12:54 PM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 12:32 PM
SGmusician - 10 July 2008 11:23 AM
Big Fred - 10 July 2008 07:13 AM
pathinfo - 04 July 2008 04:29 PM

<<To be a Christian means to reflect the image of Christ or to become Christ-like. >>

To understand how to ‘reflect the image’ of Christ, one needs to understand what Jesus really stood for.

Perhaps you need to take the Jesus Test at http://www.sentforlife.com/jesus.html . You maybe surprised at the results.

Excellent post. Modern day Republicans proclaiming their politics are more Christ-like than their opposing party’s are delusional at best.

LOL  Did you look at that website?  If you cosinder that to be an excellent post, then a lot of suspicions have been confirmed.  That little website distorted issues and used scripture so far out of context that it was funnier than Obama trying to give a Sunday school lesson.  Seems a lot of democrats need classes in Hermeneutics.  It is getting hard to find one that could teach, so maybe one of us conservatives should teach the class. LOL

Sez the person that wants to make the issues of abortion and gay rights the defining characteristics of Christianity…:coolsmile:

Says the person who has no concern about abortion and gay rights in Christianity or politics.  rolleyes

Sez the person that support the party of Ted Haggard…and that “wide stance” dude.. LOL

Ted Haggard??????? He’s a fallen preacher, what’s he got to do with anything?

It’s your party that is anti-life and pro-gay. It’s the leaders of your party propagating abortion and the gay lifestyle.

No, Haggard is much more than a fallen preacher. He has strong political ties to the Bush White House, and is an icon of modern social conservatism: criticize the morals of all the while being guilty of doing what they criticize others of doing.

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“His law is love and His gospel is peace..”

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