My personal belief is in a very loving, fair God.  The bible says that Jesus descended into hell and led captitivity captive.  My view of that is that he gave those who died under the law the opportunity to accept his once and for-all sacrifice and go to Heaven.  If God did it once, He can do it again.  Whatever He does will be just.

My larger concern is for those who have heard the gospel and rejected it.  They will stand without excuse because they have chosen their destiny.

Family, I think you’re describing a fairly standard belief that’s consistent with much of Christendom.  But, if I can ask:  how would you define God as “just” if billions of people are burning in Hell without ever having heard the gospel?

Thanks in advance,
Tony

So what part does “sin” have to do with going to hell?

If I am understanding the question correctly (and if I am not then please let me know) then I think this is referring to /describing the “unpardonable sin” . This is mentioned in Mat. 12:31-32, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10, I John 5:16. I will challenge all that are reading this to look at these verses, since there are too many to list the whole verses.  I also have some side notes that pertain to these scriptures in the KING JAMES STUDY BIBLE that I have. Hope this helps. 

NO! God does NOT send people to hell. He gave us a WILL of ouir own to make CHOICES according to OUR will. WE can WILL ourseives into hell by doing NOTHING [rebellion] OR we can WILL ourselves into heaven by accepting Jesus as Lord of our life, being sibmissive to HIS WILL founf in HIS Holy WORD. There is no more simple way to say this, yet be so truthful. If our individual philosphy and ideology does not line up with the WORD, then we become philisophical idiots.

revrunnels - 01 May 2008 09:00 AM

NO! God does NOT send people to hell. He gave us a WILL of ouir own to make CHOICES according to OUR will. WE can WILL ourseives into hell by doing NOTHING [rebellion] OR we can WILL ourselves into heaven by accepting Jesus as Lord of our life, being sibmissive to HIS WILL founf in HIS Holy WORD. There is no more simple way to say this, yet be so truthful. If our individual philosphy and ideology does not line up with the WORD, then we become philisophical idiots.

AMEN REV !!!! it seems the more mankind tries to rationalize, and use individual philosophy and all the BIG words and I in regards to GOD”S WORD makes it even harder to grasp the Simplicity of it.. Child like faith…John 3 speaks volumes then there is verse 16 that so many of us learned at an early age but the whole chapter tells of God’s love for the World…so simple that it is idiot proof …it is Choice all thru scripture …GOD IS GOD He is infinite…
We are finite… when we say that some have died without the opportunity to accept Christ we are limiting God…. 
bubba feathers

Rev, did you read the previous posts on this thread before posting?  While I know not everyone will agree, I think there is a very clear perspective on why some Christians feel reluctant to make God responsible for “sending people to Hell”—and they will invent language and phrases to give that impression.

It doesn’t make sense to me.  If you believe in a literal burning hell, then of course it is God who sends them there.  You can’t have a Great White Throne Judgment without a.) a judge and b.) a judgment.

To suggest that people send themselves to hell is just semantics.

Tony

Can you reject Jesus Christ if you have never heard if Him? There are some places on Earth where people never hear the gospel of Christ. Do they go to hell?

TonyRush - 01 May 2008 10:08 AM

Rev, did you read the previous posts on this thread before posting?  While I know not everyone will agree, I think there is a very clear perspective on why some Christians feel reluctant to make God responsible for “sending people to Hell”—and they will invent language and phrases to give that impression.

It doesn’t make sense to me.  If you believe in a literal burning hell, then of course it is God who sends them there.  You can’t have a Great White Throne Judgment without a.) a judge and b.) a judgment.

To suggest that people send themselves to hell is just semantics.

Tony

Tony, 2 Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

God is just.  He is not double-minded.  He would not send His son to die for a world He wanted to send to Hell. 

God created Adam to have fellowship with Him.  God put a will into every being that He has ever created.  Even the angels had the choice to rebel and did so under Satan’s direction.  Man sinned and brought death and judgement because of it.  Until then, Satan had no right to inflict death or judgement on mankind.  Since that fall, God has been reconciling man back to right standing with Himself. 

Since God IS just, Satan had a right to separate us from Gods presence.  All men that had ever lived had fallen to sin in one way or another, and thus were candidates for death which came from our choice in the garden.  The bible says death entered the world through one man, Adam. 

Then came Jesus who did not yield to sin.  Satan had no right to him, but Jesus allowed death to unjustly take him so he could make atonement for us.

There is no play on words.  Satan has a right to separate us from God’s presence because of MAN’s original decision to sin.  Had we not done that, then we never would have suffered or been separated from God.  God made a way to correct what we messed up.  However, if we don’t accept his way, then we remain under sin and death, and Satan has the right to separate us from God eternally.  It is not God’s decision.  It was ours and remains ours.

You have your mind made up and will listen to no other answer.  SATAN decieved us to sin and separated man from God.  God made a way to reconcile us, but we have to accept it.  HE has done everything short of taking away our will.  That is not his nature.  He created us to love Him willingly. 

Matthew 25:41 says, “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” We who are saved have been redeemed from the curse.  Sure, God is telling them their punishment, but they choose it and worked to avoid repentence.  The wages of Sin is death.  We choose.

FamilyMan - 01 May 2008 01:15 PM

Tony, 2 Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

God is just.  He is not double-minded.  He would not send His son to die for a world He wanted to send to Hell. 

I didn’t say he “wanted” to send people to Hell.  I’m simply saying that it doesn’t make sense to pretend that man is “sending himself to hell” in an effort to try to “take God off the hook” or to pretend that He’s not willing to take responsibility for that judgment.

For the record, though, the more I study the Bible, the more inclined I am to question whether or not a “literal burning hell” exists.  There are good and compelling reasons why many scholars (including Billy Graham) do not believe that God burns people in hell for eternity.

So, this entire discussion is mostly academic from my point of view.  I’m not convinced that the “hell doctrine” that’s been pieced together and preached for years is accurate.  But it’s not a debate I’m willing to get deep into.  I’m still deriving my opinion on the matter.

Tony

TonyRush - 01 May 2008 01:26 PM

FamilyMan - 01 May 2008 01:15 PM

Tony, 2 Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

God is just.  He is not double-minded.  He would not send His son to die for a world He wanted to send to Hell. 

I didn’t say he “wanted” to send people to Hell.  I’m simply saying that it doesn’t make sense to pretend that man is “sending himself to hell” in an effort to try to “take God off the hook” or to pretend that He’s not willing to take responsibility for that judgment.

For the record, though, the more I study the Bible, the more inclined I am to question whether or not a “literal burning hell” exists.  There are good and compelling reasons why many scholars (including Billy Graham) do not believe that God burns people in hell for eternity.

So, this entire discussion is mostly academic from my point of view.  I’m not convinced that the “hell doctrine” that’s been pieced together and preached for years is accurate.  But it’s not a debate I’m willing to get deep into.  I’m still deriving my opinion on the matter.

Tony

Tony, I guess we’ll just disagree on this one.  As Christians, I beleive that neither one of us will ever know the answer for sure.  We’ll be in Heaven.

I agree with Tony on the semantics deal. I think the reason it has become “in fashion” to say that we go there on our own is because we don’t like the thought of a loving God tormenting a soul for eternity. In Luke 12, Christ warns his disciples to “...fear Him...which hath power to cast into hell.”

To answer the question, I believe being found guilty of sin by God will send a person to hell.

Well, it’s not up to me to determine anyone’s spirituality, but I am not going to hang with the “scholarly / academic” crowd on this issue. I’m taking the Word literally. God said what he meant and meant what he said.

revrunnels - 01 May 2008 03:19 PM

Well, it’s not up to me to determine anyone’s spirituality, but I am not going to hang with the “scholarly / academic” crowd on this issue. I’m taking the Word literally. God said what he meant and meant what he said.

Rev, can you reference a single verse of Scripture that teaches that people burn in hell for eternity?

Be careful—it’s not a trick question but there are some contextual problems when people assume the word “hell” means “a place of eternal fiery torment” when the original verse is actually interpreted as “grave”.

Tony

TonyRush - 01 May 2008 03:53 PM

revrunnels - 01 May 2008 03:19 PM

Well, it’s not up to me to determine anyone’s spirituality, but I am not going to hang with the “scholarly / academic” crowd on this issue. I’m taking the Word literally. God said what he meant and meant what he said.

Rev, can you reference a single verse of Scripture that teaches that people burn in hell for eternity?

Be careful—it’s not a trick question but there are some contextual problems when people assume the word “hell” means “a place of eternal fiery torment” when the original verse is actually interpreted as “grave”.

Tony

Tony, I know I’ve given you this passage before.  I know you’ll reject it again, but nevertheless here you go:

[quote author="Book of Mark"]9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

I’m not rejecting it as Scripture; I’m rejecting it because it’s not an answer to my question.  I asked “can you reference a single verse of Scripture that teaches that people burn in hell for eternity.”

The passage you quoted has no reference to “burning in hell” or “eternity”.  The word Jesus is using is “Gehenna” which is correctly translated “Valley of Hinnom” in the Old Testament.  It was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.  Criminals were often thrown there.  It was a real, physical, geographical place on planet Earth. 

This is why I said “be careful” in my last post.  If you’re going to actually provide a passage of Scripture that proves that God burns people in a fiery hell for eternity....then you can’t base your beliefs on a passage like the one you just quoted.

Tony