Big Fred - 06 March 2008 09:08 AM

JamesS - 04 March 2008 05:38 PM

Big Fred - 03 March 2008 02:45 PM

Interesting that many Conservatives’ understanding of our tax structure can be ilustrated by Internet folklore, which btw has been refuted time and time again. I’m not terribly surprised....

This thread reminds me of something Warren Buffet said a while back. He made 46 million in 2006 and his tax rate was 17.7% while his receptionist’s tax rate was 30%. AMF, I think he even offered a sizable reward to anyone that could prove him wrong. So to those of you who place value in beer drinking/tax analogies here’s your chance ...all you gotta do is prove what you say is correct...

Oh, if you want to talk about real tax issues, hey I’m game…

A 30% tax rate? I wanna be his receptionist!

Stepping way in over my head here, but Warren is discussing different types of taxes. The Bulk of Warren’s money comes in the form of capital gains and dividends from companies he owns and that income is taxed differently. If you wanna go by his income, he paid himself a salary of 100K and is subject to the same income tax brackets as his receptionist.

Oh, I don’t know what all this has to do with beer, but I don’t like the taste of it.

A 30% tax rate is very common for the average taxpayer, usually it’s more for middle class if you factor in state and local taxes. The 30% includes fica and medicare., and fica maxes out on higher income people. A person making $1 million dollars a year pays the same dollar amount of fica as a person making $100,000, so you can see the percentage drops significantly for millionaires. If Warren Buffet pays $6,250.00 per year, that’s pennies to him, but if I pay it, it’s a significant part of my budget.

Wealthy people can usually benefit more from capital gains rates because they typically have more capital assets to buy and sell rather than wages. But in the final analysis it is income subject to income tax. Capital gains rates, in addition to other tax writeoffs and tax deferrals can indeed give wealthier people an overall income tax rate that is lower than the average middle class wage earner.

The people that get hit the worst are upper middle class people in the $100K range, and really get hit hard if there is a working spouse, and the Bush administration’s policies have worsened the problem, and yes I do feel that there has been too many tax breaks for the rich.

If you look at most third world countries you see masses of poor people and very rich people with no real middle class. When I look at how things are going in this country, and all the hits the middle class is taking, I do wonder if we’re headed in that direction.

I was just saying that Warren wasn’t being totally genuine comparing his tax rate to his receptionist’s rate. If he thinks he doesn’t pay enough taxes(Which he does) then he shouldn’t pay people to shelter his income for him. He could easily pay more in taxes if he wanted.

He purposefully worded his statement to make the numbers stick out more than they actually do. Warren said his rate was 17.7%, but his receptionist’s rate was 30%. What he didn’t say was that his 46 million he did receive from the companies he owns had already gone through the 35% corporate tax rate as well as the 15% dividend rate.

If his receptionist falls in the 30% bracket, he pays her(<----stereotype) extremely well...6 figures, I guess. If we were talking some other billionaire or millionaire who paid his receptionist an average salary, the example wouldn’t be nearly as glaring. The average executive receptionist salary is 27k according to web searches. 27K fits in the 15% bracket. It’s only because he pays her well, that she hits 30%.

So, he needs to just pay her less.

JamesS - 07 March 2008 01:29 PM

So, he needs to just pay her less.

I can see you are a Republican...

I got one of these silly emails the other day, hard to believe some people actually take them seriously.

Hey Big Fred, Is this an example of one of those emails ? :

A young woman was about to finish her freshman year of
college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very
liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor
of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words
redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch
Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the college lectures
that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor,
she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to
keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to
higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The
self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the
truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by ask ing how she
was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she
had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting
that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly
studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she
knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have
many college friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, ‘How is your
friend Audrey doing?’ She replied, ‘Audrey is barely getting by. All she
takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA.
She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always
invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for
classes because she’s too hung over.’

Her wise father asked his daughter, ‘Why don’t you go
to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it t o
your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.’

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion,
angrily fired back, ‘That’s a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I’ve
worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot
of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She
played while I worked my tail off!’

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, ‘Welcome to
the Republican party.’

Have a great day! 

MUSIC_DADDY - 11 March 2008 06:53 AM

I got one of these silly emails the other day, hard to believe some people actually take them seriously.

Hey Big Fred, Is this an example of one of those emails ? :

snip

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion,
angrily fired back, ‘That’s a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I’ve
worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot
of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She
played while I worked my tail off!’

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, ‘Welcome to
the Republican party.’

Have a great day! 

Yeah, but you forgot the rest of the story. After the father took the little girl home to her mom following her weekend visit, she told her mom she wanted to wanted to learn more about what Republicans believe. Mom said “well, in order to be a good Republican, you have to believe:

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you are millionaire conservative radio jock, which makes it an “illness” and needs our prayers for your “recovery”.

You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all on their own.

You have to believe that the US should get out of the UN, and that our highest national priority is enforcing UN resolutions against Iraq.

You have to believe that government should stay out of people’s lives but it needs to punish anyone caught having private sex with the wrong gender.

You have to believe that pollution is ok, so long as it makes a profit.

“Standing Tall for America” means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

You have to believe that a woman cannot be trusted with decisions about her own body, but that large multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind with no regulation whatsoever.

You have to believe that you love Jesus and Jesus loves you, and that Jesus shares your hatred of AIDS victims, homosexuals, and Hillary Clinton and approves of bombing innocent Iraqis.

You hate the ALCU for representing convicted felons, but they owed it to the country to bail out Oliver North.

You have to believe that the best way to encourage military morale is to praise the troops overseas, put a yellow ribbon on your suv and cut their VA benefits.

You believe that group sex and drug use are degenerate sins that can only be purged by running for governor of California as a Republican.

You have to believe that the best way to fight terrorism is to alienate our allies and then demand their cooperation and money.

You have to believe that government medicine is wrong and that HMO’s and insurance companies only have your best interests at heart.

You have to believe that providing health care to all Iraqis is sound government policy but providing health care to all Americans is socialism personified.

You believe that tobacco’s link to cancer and global warming are “junk science”, but Creationism should be taught in schools.

You have to believe that waging war with no exit strategy was wrong in Vietnam but right in Iraq.

You have to believe that Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush’s daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney was doing business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a “we can’t find Bin Laden” diversion.

You believe that government should restrict itself to just the powers named in the Constitution, yet believe the government should ban gay marriage and censor the Internet.

You have to believe that the public has a right to know about the adulterous affairs of Democrats, while those of Republicans are a “private matter”.

You have to believe that the public has a right to know about Hillary’s cattle trades but that Bush was right to censor those 28 pages from the Congressional 9/11 report because you just can’t handle the truth.

You support state rights, which means Ashcroft telling states what locally passed voter initiatives he will allow them to have.

You have to believe that what Clinton did in the 1960’s is of vital national interest but what Bush did decades later is “stale news” and “irrelevant”.

You have to believe that trade with Cuba is wrong because it is communist, but trading with China and Vietnam is ‘free enterprise.’ “

The little girl decided not to be a Republican because, well, she is smart like mom...

If this discussion is going to be nothing more than insult slinging, it will be closed.  Let’s try some adult, intellectual discussion.

Thank you!

I like what Ben Stein has to say. He’s pretty adult and intellectual, and Republican of all things....

Tax The Rich

Big Fred - 12 March 2008 04:03 PM

I like what Ben Stein has to say. He’s pretty adult and intellectual, and Republican of all things....

Tax The Rich

It’s been said before “any tax on the rich is an indirect tax on the poor”.
The rich own and run buisnesses and pass any tax on to the rest of us.
did you ever get a job from a poor man? I think not.

Kelly Fogarty