This morning early we arrived back in Nashville from our road trip, and while I was getting my things off the bus to take home. a driver from one of the bus lease companies that park their buses in the same lot, came over to me to talk for awhile. I have talked with him several times before but I do not know his name. He opened the conversation by asking me, “The group you are with is a gospel group, right?” And I told him, “Yes sir, Southern Sound Quartet”. His lower lip began to quiver with emotion, and then he told me that for the last several months their company had been leasing to various Christian Rock groups. He then asked me, point blank, “Does you’re group drink and watch porn videos?” And I told him under no certain terms, “No”. I was a bit puzzled and then he began to openly weep, with tears streaming down his face. He told me, “I once did all those things, but when I changed my life, I gave all of that up. Now I am driving for these so called christian groups, and the first thing they do is get drunk, use foul language, and watch those dirty movies from the time we leave until the time I bring them back home”. He said, “It ain’t right. Young kids adore them and are learning from them and its just wrong.” I was a bit shocked, so I asked him, “What group is doing this?” And he told me, “All of them….well not Avalon, but all the rest I have driven for.”
I have long believed that the rock music influence in our churches was a bad omen of things to come, now I am convinced. If we have individuals out there, claiming to be Christian, but doing these kind of evil things, we need to put an end to this. Our young people deserve a better role model, and certainly He deserves a better witness. Now I did not get the names of the groups he has been driving for, but it would be an easy thing to find out. I don’t think there is a valid reason to call names. But I do believe there is a valid reason for Christians to stand against such indecent behavior. Christians beware, this is not of God.
I couldn’t agree with you anymore that this is, indeed a sad commentary. However, to blame it on the style of music they sing seems incredibly naive! It’s not like we haven’t heard of these same types of things going on in SG for years! No slam against SG - sin is a real problem no matter what kind of music you like.
I John 5:17 “We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].” (Amplified)
I couldn’t agree with you anymore that this is, indeed a sad commentary. However, to blame it on the style of music they sing seems incredibly naive! It’s not like we haven’t heard of these same types of things going on in SG for years! No slam against SG - sin is a real problem no matter what kind of music you like.
I John 5:17 “We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ’s divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].” (Amplified)
I agree that we cannot tag this problem on one genre of gospel music. But I do believe with everything in me, that Christian Music should not be patterned from music of the world. I have yet to see any redeeming factor in hard rock. And certainly this kind of behavior should not be tolerated. IN SG music it is a given that we do not tolerate such, even though there maybe those within our ranks so inclined, it is not accepted behavior. However, in Christian Rock, I do not see the same strong statements of where the line is drawn between right and wrong.
IN SG music it is a given that we do not tolerate such, even though there maybe those within our ranks so inclined, it is not accepted behavior. However, in Christian Rock, I do not see the same strong statements of where the line is drawn between right and wrong.
I don’t think that you can fairly say that all CCM artists view this as “accepted behavior” because there’s too much evidence that the CCM industry as a whole does NOT accept such behavior. There have been instances of CCM artists being pretty much “drummed out” of the ministry because of indiscretions. You also can’t base the bus driver’s blanket generalization of “All of them… except for Avalon” as being too trustworthy. For all we know, “All of them” could be 2 or 3 bands out of 100 out there on the road today.
That said, Brother Ben, I do agree wholeheartedly that Gospel Music needs to SOUND like Gospel Music. There needs to be an identifiable Gospel sound if we want to appeal to the lost as something more than pale imitators of secular Metal, R&B, Hip Hop… hey, even Country for that matter. There may be, a place for all of that music in evangelizing the masses, but I honestly believe, as the end of days approaches, that even the world will crave real Gospel Music as part of the great End Times revival prophesied in Joel 2.
I also feel that the day will soon come when we won’t differentiate between Black Gospel Music and Southern Gospel Music… it will all be, simply, Gospel Music!
[quote authorI I agree that we cannot tag this problem on one genre of gospel music. But I do believe with everything in me, that Christian Music should not be patterned from music of the world.
Gospel music should SOUND, look, smell, act l—- like gospel music. And you shouldn’t have to hear the entire song before you recognize it as GOSPEL MUSIC.
My thoughts on this topic vary. While I do not agree with Christian artists of any kind doing things of the world, i.e. drinking, smoking, porn, etc… I would disagree with those that say to pattern anything after the “world” music as it was called isn’t always a bad thing.
This is one area that SG has been left behind in a sense. So many have stayed in the old fashioned mind set and thus the younger generation has missed the boat because it isn’t their “style”.
We have to keep up with the times to make our music attractive to the younger generation and the un-churched. Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we need to “copy” off the world, but we must be sensitive to the spirit’s leading. I see nothing wrong with artists like Michael W Smith, Steven Curtis Chapman, and others leading the charge in the CCM world to reach the lost and younger generation with a contemporary feel to the gospel. No matter what the opinions are - it’s still the gospel. The message is still the same even if the methods are different.
Ben, I’m not sure “it’s a given that we don’t tolerate such…” Again, that seems pretty naive to me. It’s true in SG (and in most other segments of the church) that there are those who clearly “don’t tolerate such” and then there are those who seem to “tolerate” pretty much anything. “Tolerance” was a good word to use because I think the world’s politically correct idea of tolerance has infected the church world way too much. In much of the church (including SG) sin is pretty much winked at by a lot of people. I had a conversation not too long ago with some of “the leaders” in the SG industry who were very upset that I was calling the clearly sinful actions of some of their “stars” what it was - sin. They agreed with me that it was sin and applauded me for my commitment to the Word of God but when I asked them why they turned a blind eye to obvious sin they said that “love covers sin - it doesn’t expose it” (which was taking scripture out of context and a real cop out) and the people I was talking about “were too big for anyone to take on”. (By the way, I wasn’t gossiping about the “stars”. The leaders approached me about a stand I was taking to ask me to back off.) We could all name well known artists who have engaged in public sin with no real consequences (well publicized adultery, public and messy divorces, etc.). One of the most winked at sins in the gospel groups I’ve hung out with (and there have been many) are the seemingly endless supply of dirty jokes that Ephesians 5 frowns on so heavily. (Unfortunately, I was a participant many times, but thank God for His grace, I was convicted and repented and have seen God change this area of my life in a wonderful way.)
As to the “music of the world” - this really is a tired argument and I’m pretty sure this thread wasn’t intended to degenerate into that quagmire of subjectivity. I don’t think that artists like Michael W. Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman are simply using a style of music to reach a younger generation. I could be wrong, but my guess is they actually like the style of music they do and that’s why they use it to reach others for the Lord. If they weren’t musicians they would probably still try to reach others for the Lord using some other ability. I don’t know hardly any Christians who listen to the music they do simply because it’s “Gospel” or “Christian”. They listen to it because they like it! By the way, that’s why most creators of music perform their particular style - they like it. God “gave us ALL things richly to ENJOY” including our taste in music. No one style is more Christlike or better than another just because you happen to like it better!!! It’s high time we all get that through our heads. There are lot’s of styles of music that I don’t particularly like or care for but that doesn’t make them sinful or “suspect”. I just don’t like them so I listen to something else.
God “gave us ALL things richly to ENJOY” including our taste in music. No one style is more Christlike or better than another just because you happen to like it better!!! It’s high time we all get that through our heads. There are lot’s of styles of music that I don’t particularly like or care for but that doesn’t make them sinful or “suspect”. I just don’t like them so I listen to something else.
To think that this type of sin among those who sing Christian music is only attributed to one genre is truly, as others have said, “naive.” I can assure you, from first hand experience, that there are some truly wonderful, godly young people singing Christian rock music, who love the Lord with all their hearts and want to reach their generation for Him. They would not dream of doing any of these things. By the same token, I can assure you, by first hand experience, that these things also go on in Southern Gospel music. If you asked some of those bus drivers, they could tell you some stories, too. People are people, no matter what genre of Christian music they sing. It has less to do with the music, and more to do with the hearts and commitment (or lack thereof) to Christ by the individuals presenting the music. That is why we all have to follow Christ, not those who sing songs for Him.
I am not sure that I understand the motivation behind this initial post. Are you suggesting that any other genre of Gospel music has more sin than Southern, please! You asked which groups but didn’t take the answer? Don’t dangle a treat for forum gossip. If you want to rally folks to stand against sin, then do it by some real call to action. Try something like pray for XXXX because their driver told me they get drunk and watch porn. For far too long people dance around truth but wallow in gossip and innuendo.
A few years back, I met a prominent SG artist coming off his bus reaking of alcohol. It created in me an opinion - not of what it meant to be a Gospel artist, but of the difficulty we all have with sin and freedom of choice.
I work closely with both Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian artists - even the “beastly” Christian rockers mentioned in the original post. There is not one who could easily cast the proverbial ‘first stone’.
There is no “God approved” Gospel sound. Just as Jesus’ message and parables varied from village to village, yet retained the absolute Truth, so must our message in music be adapted to the villagers we’re trying to reach.
Screw your head on straight and stop trying to build one up by tearing another down!
A few years back, I met a prominent SG artist coming off his bus reaking of alcohol. It created in me an opinion - not of what it meant to be a Gospel artist, but of the difficulty we all have with sin and freedom of choice.
I work closely with both Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian artists - even the “beastly” Christian rockers mentioned in the original post. There is not one who could easily cast the proverbial ‘first stone’.
There is no “God approved” Gospel sound. Just as Jesus’ message and parables varied from village to village, yet retained the absolute Truth, so must our message in music be adapted to the villagers we’re trying to reach.
Screw your head on straight and stop trying to build one up by tearing another down!
I never once used the word “beastly” and do not know where you got that idea. And yes there are no God approved Gospel sounds, but there are certainly God approved guidelines for living a Christian life. Whether the sinner be Southern Gospel, CCM, Black Gospel, or simply a layperson, those requirements are clear. However, I certainly do not believe we can win the lost of the world by becoming more and more like the world, as the Bible clearly says, “Be ye seperate”. As to screwing my head on straight, in my 59 years, most of which was spent in the music business, you are a first to suggest such. I really don’t know whether to thank you or feel disdain. And I did not try to tear anyone down. I never mentioned one single name, nor do I know who the driver had driven for during these past few months. I did ask, but he never fully answered the question, and I am glad he did not….I did not need to know. To the point, the driver was clearly shaken and extremely emotional, so much so it caught me off guard, and I probably did not offer near as much encouragement to him as I should have. He came to me, in my opinion, to see if every gospel singer was like this, for he pointedly asked me if our group did the same sort of things, which I assured him, we did not, and if one of our members did, he would no longer be a member, period. Do I believe the driver’s story? Yes, I most certainly do. This man, had no ties with any form of gospel music and he did not know me at, even though we had talked a few times previously, except through the Eagle’s Nest Coach company where we both leave our coaches when not on the road. His only tie to me was, he thought I sang in a gospel group. It appears to me that he was reaching out to me to try and resolve in his on heart that what he had seen and endured was not the norm for gospel groups. That was the distinct impression I received, and it grieved me more than words can say, for I am convinced that this driver had witnessed exactly what he said he had. Now, I know SG has had its share of rogues through the years, and we still do. But more so in this genre than any other, young people are fashioned by their heros. Those that do not live according to Christian ideas should not be allowed to be role models. In SG our audience is for the most part, mature enough to handle the occasional bad egg, they simply quit going to their concerts and supporting their “ministry”. You can blame me all you want, but in this case I was the messenger. I think we as Christian people are duty bound to bring to attention that which we feel is wrong. I do not believe in singling anyone out, nor do I believe in naming names. But I will never condone a life of such blatant sin. This man came to me with a very heavy heart about this very thing. We as gospel music individuals need to root out that which brings dishonor to His name. This good man did not lie aboutthis event, it was evident by his pain and his tears that he was going through turmoil in dealing with this. Take it at face value and react justly.
A few years back, I met a prominent SG artist coming off his bus reaking of alcohol. It created in me an opinion - not of what it meant to be a Gospel artist, but of the difficulty we all have with sin and freedom of choice.
I work closely with both Southern Gospel and Contemporary Christian artists - even the “beastly” Christian rockers mentioned in the original post. There is not one who could easily cast the proverbial ‘first stone’.
There is no “God approved” Gospel sound. Just as Jesus’ message and parables varied from village to village, yet retained the absolute Truth, so must our message in music be adapted to the villagers we’re trying to reach.
Screw your head on straight and stop trying to build one up by tearing another down!
I do not believe in singling anyone out, nor do I believe in naming names.
But you did, when you singled out your group and Avalon as non participants, leaving the fan and potential promoter/pastor to wonder who is? . Did you not?
Isn’t this placing a dark cloud for every artist (except for you two) to fight through?
I know Ben to be a good and godly man who does not intend to tear anyone down. Instead of so many getting offended, Ben’s post should move us to pray and lift up our Christian singers. I believe that what this bus driver has mentioned likely happened, because it is happening in churches throughout our land today. The divorce rate for professing Christians has been about the same as that of non-Christians, the ministry is eaten up with ministers consuming porn (if you go to Focus on the Family or support groups that help the sexually addicted you’ll find out that many pastors struggle with these problems), and there is a spirit of worldliness in the church. This is one reason that the present economic downturn has not depressed me. I am seeing some folks in the church finally getting around to repenting and worshipping the true God instead of the god of money, fame, and luxury.
Ben’s post caused me to look within myself and make sure that I am properly representing the Lord to others. Ben didn’t name offending groups because it was not Ben’s intention to call out other people. It was to make us aware of sin in the camp and cause us to turn to the Lord and seek Him to give us a spirit of repentance so that Christian music can be truly that, Christian.
I would disagree with Ben some on what styles of music God can use, but whether the music is traditional gospel or hard hitting rock, it must be grounded in the gospel and presented by vessels who desire to model holy living. Back in the late 80s and early 90s I used to listen to the group Whitecross. They had a hard rock sound, but were hard-hitting with their lyrics. They admonished the listener to repent and call on Christ in most of their songs. There was never anything ambiguous in their lyrics. We have an alternative Christian rock station in our town. I was listening to it the other day and did notice a difference in the worldview of the lyrics, but there was very little of the gospel ever presented. Some of these groups need to move into the secular rock field and try to be salt and light there and move away from the Jesus-light stuff. I think that more true ministry would be done. These folks would have more opportunity to rub shoulders with folks in the world. These artists would not be nearly as famous in the rock field as they would in the Christian market but they would be more authentic. John Fischer’s book “Fearless Faith” does a good job of dealing with this subject.
Back to Ben, cut him some slack. He’s not a bad guy. He’s not a gossiper. He just has a concern for the Lord and His holy standard.
High Fidelity has made a very good point. I will agree with Ben on the title of the article, however the concept of sad
is misplaced. The only thing thats sad is the arrogance and lack of emotional self control on the part of Ben.
Emotional control or control of the self is the highest form and is the base of all the virtues. It is one of
the most important,but one of the most difficult things for a powerful mind to be its own master. One who
reigns within himself, and rules passions, desires and fears, is more than a king. Self-control, control of the
emotions is a virtue which will become ours if we cultivate it properly, by fighting a warfare against unkindness of
heart and soul. It is only by doing so that a man comes to the full development of his powers. Ben had a duty
to excercise self-control after hearing the negative information. Viewers and participants of this website have
ears, and our ears are not garbage cans. It would serve you well to apologize for the commentary, after so
many years in the business you above all people should have used better judgement.
