Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has long supported a 50-year troop presence in Iraq — or the “South Korea model” — set forth by President Bush and Gen. Petraeus. “We have had troops in South Korea for 60 years and nobody minds,” he said on the Charlie Rose Show and also that the Korea model was “exactly” the right idea.
Now McCain changed his position, arguing that the Korea-like presence is not an “analogy” he would use for Iraq. Recognizing the “nature of the society in Iraq,” McCain suggested that Iraqi opposition to a permanent U.S. occupation may make the South Korea model implausible.
McCain added that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.”
But if you suggest withdrawing as the Democrats have suggested, you’re a cut-and-run coward who surrenders.
And....
* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he now opposes the measure.
* McCain has been both open and closed to a redeploy-to-perimeter strategy in Iraq.
* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.
* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
McCain actually was consistent on most of these issues, right up until he started running for president, at which point he conveniently abandoned practically every position he used to hold. The problem isn’t just the incessant flip-flops; it’s the shameless pandering and hollow convictions behind the incessant flip-flops.
I know we have had some lively debate that had an earlier thread closed. Let’s try to keep this one civil. It is interesting to read your post. It seems that you being an Obama supporter, the last thing you would want to draw attention to is an argument over character. You merely mixed in some changes in positions over the course of in some cases years and some assertations that are typical of the democratic party. Furthermore, Obama has “flip flopped” so many time in the past few weeks that it makes me dizzy. Iran is tiny, Iran is a grave threat. Just one example. No preconditions, oh there will be preparations. I can appreciate you trying to draw attention to short comings that John McCain may have. I disagree with him on several issues. However, if the choice is between McCain and Obama, I choose McCain. Why? Here is why…
I don’t want anyone no matter how wealthy they are to have to pay nearly 50% of their income in taxes. I don’t think that is fair. “By the way, I am not one of those wealthy.” Furthermore, raising taxes would be a nightmare scenario for an economy that is a little on edge. We are not techinically in a recession because we have had no decline in GDP to indicate such. That does not change the fact that the economy is not as strong as we would like. As it stands now, my family pays about 27% of its income in taxes. Allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire will move that figure closer to between 33 and 36%. That is ridiculous and many would pay much more. If things are already tight in the household, what happens when cost of living soars because of increased taxes?
I think that we should finish the job in Iraq. Whether or not we keep a presence there afterward is beside the point and up for debate. Whether you agree with the war is also beside the point. Most of the politicians that are now against the war were for it when they looked at the same intelligence that Bush and those still for completing what we started had. We are there, and you can’t change that. If we leave it in shambles, it will be completely unethical.
I could go on for days, but I fear it will not change your mind. You did refer to me as spouting Rush Limbaugh talking points in the closed thread. That is hillarious since I do not listen to Rush. I haven’t even heard him in about 10 years. Maybe he is speaking some common sense, but whatever the case, I am independent. I can think for myself. If I said anything in the last thread that you may have taken as a personal attack, I apologize. Like I said, lets keep this one civil.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has long supported a 50-year troop presence in Iraq — or the “South Korea model” — set forth by President Bush and Gen. Petraeus. “We have had troops in South Korea for 60 years and nobody minds,” he said on the Charlie Rose Show and also that the Korea model was “exactly” the right idea.
Now McCain changed his position, arguing that the Korea-like presence is not an “analogy” he would use for Iraq. Recognizing the “nature of the society in Iraq,” McCain suggested that Iraqi opposition to a permanent U.S. occupation may make the South Korea model implausible.
McCain added that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.”
But if you suggest withdrawing as the Democrats have suggested, you’re a cut-and-run coward who surrenders.
And....
* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he now opposes the measure.
* McCain has been both open and closed to a redeploy-to-perimeter strategy in Iraq.
* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.
* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
McCain actually was consistent on most of these issues, right up until he started running for president, at which point he conveniently abandoned practically every position he used to hold. The problem isn’t just the incessant flip-flops; it’s the shameless pandering and hollow convictions behind the incessant flip-flops.
What does this say about a man’s character?
That is a great list and probably took a long time to type out. The problem is that you must have thought that most of us Conservatives are excited about McCain and would be upset with a post like that. The truth is, I’m not happy with McCain as the nomination at all. He is the least representative of Conservativism of all the Republican candidates. The only thing attractive about McCain is the thought that he is the least likely of either candidate to appoint Supreme Court Justices who will NOT legislate from the bench. So, if he flip flopped or not doesn’t matter. He’s NOT the candidate that we had hoped for. He is the lessor of two evils. I do feel safer about our security with him than Obama.
So, if you’re looking for us to defend McCain, you’re not getting any argument from us. We don’t like him either, but he’s a little better then the other choice.
We will just hold our nose and vote, but we WILL vote.
You hit the nail on the head. I am not jumping up and down over the prospect of McCain, but when I consider the alternative I’ll take McCain anyday. I can’t wait to see actual debate on issues. I will give Obama one thing. He is by far the better public speaker. If you just listen to his speeches, he really does a good job delivering them. The only question is, what is it that he is delivering? When you get into the meat of the matter, his policies are horrible. They are boderline socialist. Tonight he mentioned the goverment making oil companies invest their record profits into clean energy research. What right does he think the gov. has to tell any company how to spend their proffits? He also mentioned raising teacher’s pay. When did that become the responsibility of the Federal gov. instead of the state? How does he plan to pay for this while lowering the middle class taxes? Yeah he said that, yet he wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire. My family is firmly in the middle class tax bracket and if those expire, our taxes go up by at least a couple thousand a year. This doesn’t even bring up the questions to programs that he is proposing for healthcare. He mentioned making college available to everyone because that is a right “entitlement.” College is already a reality to anyone who works hard and if you need help, grants are made available in many cases that pay the entire tuition. If everyone is entitled to a college degree, does that not take away the accomplishment of getting it? Since when did a garbage truck driver, postal worker, butcher, cashier, or even pet groomer need a college degree. If they want one to move up in life, more power to them. The avenue is already there for them. Does my Bahcelor’s degree now become like the Associates degree, a glorified high school diploma? Am I now going to have to get my Master’s degree to be above average. I wish someonoe could give me one example of a goverment entitlement program that has worked efficiently and effectively. Obama is a great speaker alright, but when it comes to leadership and common sense I fear he is in the shallow end of the pool. In the end, I think conservatives will vote for McCain, if they know what is best for them. He may not represent my ideals, but he is much closer to those ideals than Obama. If we are going to protect our rights as Christians that are being trampled on by the far left, then we better have a president that will appoint judges that interpret and not make the law. We don’t need a president that has the most liberal voting record in congress.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has long supported a 50-year troop presence in Iraq — or the “South Korea model” — set forth by President Bush and Gen. Petraeus. “We have had troops in South Korea for 60 years and nobody minds,” he said on the Charlie Rose Show and also that the Korea model was “exactly” the right idea.
Now McCain changed his position, arguing that the Korea-like presence is not an “analogy” he would use for Iraq. Recognizing the “nature of the society in Iraq,” McCain suggested that Iraqi opposition to a permanent U.S. occupation may make the South Korea model implausible.
McCain added that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.”
But if you suggest withdrawing as the Democrats have suggested, you’re a cut-and-run coward who surrenders.
And....
* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he now opposes the measure.
* McCain has been both open and closed to a redeploy-to-perimeter strategy in Iraq.
* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.
* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.
* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.
* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.
* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
McCain actually was consistent on most of these issues, right up until he started running for president, at which point he conveniently abandoned practically every position he used to hold. The problem isn’t just the incessant flip-flops; it’s the shameless pandering and hollow convictions behind the incessant flip-flops.
What does this say about a man’s character?
That is a great list and probably took a long time to type out. The problem is that you must have thought that most of us Conservatives are excited about McCain and would be upset with a post like that. The truth is, I’m not happy with McCain as the nomination at all. He is the least representative of Conservativism of all the Republican candidates. The only thing attractive about McCain is the thought that he is the least likely of either candidate to appoint Supreme Court Justices who will NOT legislate from the bench. So, if he flip flopped or not doesn’t matter. He’s NOT the candidate that we had hoped for. He is the lessor of two evils. I do feel safer about our security with him than Obama.
So, if you’re looking for us to defend McCain, you’re not getting any argument from us. We don’t like him either, but he’s a little better then the other choice.
We will just hold our nose and vote, but we WILL vote.
Four years ago flip-flopping was the centerpiece of the Republican campaign, now it doesn’t matter. Well alright then.
I don’t know about the security thing either. McCain crashed several planes during training, and was captured by the enemy during combat because he crashed again...not to mention he was released from prison camp by appeasing and negotiating with our communist enemies.
Get a clue. He actually chose to stay in that prison camp even after they were going to release him because he felt it was unfair to his fellow Americans in the same camp. When it comes to the subject of security, McCain is by far the better man. I may not want him to be my pilot, but how many great leaders are bad drivers? The point is, you have yelled and screamed let’s debate on the issues, not on personal associations when it comes to Obama. Now you are attacking McCain by dishonoring his service to his country. Typical liberal approach. How about supplying something of proof to back up that statement. If not, then lets get back to the issues.
Get a clue. He actually chose to stay in that prison camp even after they were going to release him because he felt it was unfair to his fellow Americans in the same camp. When it comes to the subject of security, McCain is by far the better man. I may not want him to be my pilot, but how many great leaders are bad drivers? The point is, you have yelled and screamed let’s debate on the issues, not on personal associations when it comes to Obama. Now you are attacking McCain by dishonoring his service to his country. Typical liberal approach. How about supplying something of proof to back up that statement. If not, then lets get back to the issues.
Get a clue. He actually chose to stay in that prison camp even after they were going to release him because he felt it was unfair to his fellow Americans in the same camp. When it comes to the subject of security, McCain is by far the better man. I may not want him to be my pilot, but how many great leaders are bad drivers? The point is, you have yelled and screamed let’s debate on the issues, not on personal associations when it comes to Obama. Now you are attacking McCain by dishonoring his service to his country. Typical liberal approach. How about supplying something of proof to back up that statement. If not, then lets get back to the issues.
He must be talking about Obama. If we bring up issues about Obama’s integrity, then we should just stick to the issues. If liberals talk about the integrity of McCain, all of a sudden it is a legitimate issue. Odd!
Four years ago flip-flopping was the centerpiece of the Republican campaign, now it doesn’t matter. Well alright then.
I don’t know about the security thing either. McCain crashed several planes during training, and was captured by the enemy during combat because he crashed again...not to mention he was released from prison camp by appeasing and negotiating with our communist enemies.
DEON SAID
Who said that flip-flopping doesn’t matter? It’s just so far down on the list of negatives of both of these candidates that it’s not even worth talking about.
There are a LOT of other things that concern us about McCain that are way more important than flip-flopping, but as bad a candidate as he is, he is STILL more appealing than Obama. Now that is a sorry state, but that is the state that we are living it.
Hey, maybe that one of the other 57 states that Obama was thinking about. The SORRY STATE of our Presidential candidates.
