I over heard a [christian] person, just put down and ridicule a professed atheist, for no other reason, then the fact that he didn’t believe the same as we do. I know this is a touchy subject. But isn’t it my duty to try and lead the agnostic to christ? And not to slam and belittle? I know jesus said to flee those that are not amoung us, but is that really the case here? I jumped this christian fellows behind a little because i thought he was out of line, and not living by example. I think it is my place to try to show others that jesus is the savior, and to try and save his soul from eternal hell. So how do some of you handle situations like this? I felt awkward tell a christian he was out of line, i felt judgemental in a sense. But i think when we turn our backs on the lost, it reflects on all christians everywhere...what say you?

I believe you have to show them love.  Heck, we better treat them good now cause the rest of eternity is going to be rough if they hold on to that lie.

I over heard a [christian] person, just put down and ridicule a professed atheist, for no other reason, then the fact that he didn’t believe the same as we do.

But isn’t it my duty to try and lead the agnostic to christ?

I jumped this christian fellows behind a little because i thought he was out of line, and not living by example.

Not a bad thing. Even as Christians we need to hold each other accountable. i think it is best to do this in private, though if possible.

I think it is my place to try to show others that jesus is the savior, and to try and save his soul from eternal hell.

Amen.
It is definitely our duty and responsibilty (GREAT COMMISSION)

So how do some of you handle situations like this?

Like familyman said we need to show them love. If we are to be Christ-like then we need to act the same way Jesus did. I remember a few years back when the popular little catch phrase came out “WWJD” (what would Jesus do).
I know it is very frustrating when you cannot get through to others but at the same time pray about it because you never know how GOD will move.

I believe we are to treat all others with dignity and respect.  (easy to say . . . not always so easy to do!)

Thank you all for your help in this situation. Your thoughts have been so helpful to me. This and prayer will guide me through these types of situations.  God Bless All of you, and again...thank you so very much.

A few years ago, I was in Puerto Rico and had dinner with a man and his wife (Jewish), another couple (Buddhist), a fundamentalist Christian and an atheist.  When the conversation turned to spiritual matters, I thought “This oughta be good” and sat back to enjoy the conversation.

As the conversation settled on things like “does God exist” and what the role of religion is in people’s lives, I actually found myself nodding a long with some of the things that the Buddhist and the atheist were saying.  Why?  Not because I agreed with their choice of religion but because I respected the fact that they seemed to have actually arrived at their beliefs by a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking. 

The problem I had with the fundamentalist Christian was the same I have with many fundamentalists of any religion:  he was basically just repeating the same platitudes and cliches he’d been told.  In this case, the guy was basically just repeating what he’d learned in Sunday School or just quoting a Bible verse and claiming it was “proof” just because he said so.  (He also apparently believed that he could make up in volume and in repetition what he lacked in his ability to communicate.  The longer we talked the more emotionally distressed he seemed to become and we eventually turned the conversation to other topics since he was the only one who didn’t seem able to talk about it without getting upset.)

So, here’s my point:  atheists are just like anyone else.  They hold their specific beliefs (or lack of beliefs) for certain reasons.  And in many cases, their “reasons” are grounded in some actual reasoning and thinking.  It’s not just an issue of them being raised by atheists and picking up their beliefs.  They usually “chose” to be an atheist and not always for the reasons people think (bitterness toward God, etc.)

So, how do you treat them?  I think you should treat them like anyone else.  Live your life in front of them.  Be respectful of their beliefs and, when asked, share your own perspective. 

In other words, I don’t think you need to treat an “atheist” any differently than you would treat anyone else.

Tony

TonyRush - 11 March 2008 02:36 PM

A few years ago, I was in Puerto Rico and had dinner with a man and his wife (Jewish), another couple (Buddhist), a fundamentalist Christian and an atheist.  When the conversation turned to spiritual matters, I thought “This oughta be good” and sat back to enjoy the conversation.

As the conversation settled on things like “does God exist” and what the role of religion is in people’s lives, I actually found myself nodding a long with some of the things that the Buddhist and the atheist were saying.  Why?  Not because I agreed with their choice of religion but because I respected the fact that they seemed to have actually arrived at their beliefs by a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking. 

The problem I had with the fundamentalist Christian was the same I have with many fundamentalists of any religion:  he was basically just repeating the same platitudes and cliches he’d been told.  In this case, the guy was basically just repeating what he’d learned in Sunday School or just quoting a Bible verse and claiming it was “proof” just because he said so.  (He also apparently believed that he could make up in volume and in repetition what he lacked in his ability to communicate.  The longer we talked the more emotionally distressed he seemed to become and we eventually turned the conversation to other topics since he was the only one who didn’t seem able to talk about it without getting upset.)

So, here’s my point:  atheists are just like anyone else.  They hold their specific beliefs (or lack of beliefs) for certain reasons.  And in many cases, their “reasons” are grounded in some actual reasoning and thinking.  It’s not just an issue of them being raised by atheists and picking up their beliefs.  They usually “chose” to be an atheist and not always for the reasons people think (bitterness toward God, etc.)

So, how do you treat them?  I think you should treat them like anyone else.  Live your life in front of them.  Be respectful of their beliefs and, when asked, share your own perspective. 

In other words, I don’t think you need to treat an “atheist” any differently than you would treat anyone else.

Tony

Tony, you know I love you, but you are sounding like a broken record. You assume that Christians believe what they do, because they have just blindly followed anything that their preacher has told them. You give no Christians any credit for looking into God’s Word and coming to their own conclusions. You do however, give the Buddhist and the Atheist commendations for “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking”.

Why is it that you can never give the Christian the same consideration and respect that you give the Buddhist or the Atheist?  As a Christian, I believe what I do after hours and hours of study and prayer, not because some preacher told me something. Interestingly, you will probably find that many Buddhists believe the same as do many Atheists.

Deon, it’s interesting that you chose to only respond to the parts of my post with which you “had a bone to pick”.  No comment on my answer to the actual question in the topic thread?

But, in response, I’ll simply say this:  YES, YES, YES!  It’s my observation that most Christians hold their particular set of beliefs—not because they actually arrived at them through conscious choice, introspection and comparing other belief systems—but because of social factors such as where they were raised, what their parents believed, etc.

So, yes, Deon, I’m guilty as charged.  If I were to place a bet, I’d say that there is a higher percentage of Buddhists or atheists who CHOSE their beliefs through “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking” than fundamentalist Christians.  If you disagree, that’s certainly your prerogative.

As a Christian, I believe what I do after hours and hours of study and prayer, not because some preacher told me something.

Then you’re an exception which is obviously why you reacted to my comments the way you did.

But, since you bring up your own personal introspection as an example, I’ll ask the same question:  did you initially choose Christianity as a result of “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking”?  Or are the “hours and hours of study and prayer” something that you started doing AFTER choosing Christianity as belief system?

That’s what I’m referring to.  I don’t doubt at all that there are a great many Christians who spend hours studying every day.  But, at the risk of being redundant, it’s my observation that many people choose Christianity as their “default” belief because of various social factors.  Conversely, the people I know who converted to, say, Buddhism as an adult tend to be people who actually chose that set of beliefs very deliberately as a result of comparative study and conscious thinking.

Tony

TonyRush - 11 March 2008 07:24 PM

Deon, it’s interesting that you chose to only respond to the parts of my post with which you “had a bone to pick”.  No comment on my answer to the actual question in the topic thread?

But, in response, I’ll simply say this:  YES, YES, YES!  It’s my observation that most Christians hold their particular set of beliefs—not because they actually arrived at them through conscious choice, introspection and comparing other belief systems—but because of social factors such as where they were raised, what their parents believed, etc.

So, yes, Deon, I’m guilty as charged.  If I were to place a bet, I’d say that there is a higher percentage of Buddhists or atheists who CHOSE their beliefs through “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking” than fundamentalist Christians.  If you disagree, that’s certainly your prerogative.

As a Christian, I believe what I do after hours and hours of study and prayer, not because some preacher told me something.

Then you’re an exception which is obviously why you reacted to my comments the way you did.

But, since you bring up your own personal introspection as an example, I’ll ask the same question:  did you initially choose Christianity as a result of “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking”?  Or are the “hours and hours of study and prayer” something that you started doing AFTER choosing Christianity as belief system?

That’s what I’m referring to.  I don’t doubt at all that there are a great many Christians who spend hours studying every day.  But, at the risk of being redundant, it’s my observation that many people choose Christianity as their “default” belief because of various social factors.  Conversely, the people I know who converted to, say, Buddhism as an adult tend to be people who actually chose that set of beliefs very deliberately as a result of comparative study and conscious thinking.

Tony

OK, Tony, you seem to infer that being taught to be a Christian as a child is a bad thing, yet you don’t seem to think that being taught manners, or respect as a child is a bad thing. I was BLESSED to have been born in a country where Christianity was taught to me as a child. As I grew, I challenged those teaching and learned for myself what I believe and why I believe it. Do you also believe that we learn manners by default? Do we learn morals by default? Sure we do, but it’s not a bad thing?

My point is you are always harping on your observation of Christians having no introspection, conscious thought, or critical thinking”. I’m not real sure what you are observing, but that is not what the vast majority if see of other Christians. I am not the exception, from what I can see, I am just the average Christian. Now, I am only guessing, but I would guess that most Buddhists, Muslims, and Atheists believe what they believe because of what they were taught as children. You give the non-Christian much more credibility than you do the Christian.

What I am gathering from you is that a person should come to Christianity, not through faith, but through reason, introspection, conscious thought, and critical thinking. That’s not what being a Christian is all about.

Just so the record is straight, I believe that you treat an Atheists the same way you treat everyone else, with Christian love.

I understand what Tony’s getting at, but I think (from what I’ve seen anyway) that most of the introspective questioning within the Christian faith is done by folks who have, for whatever reason, decided to switch denominational allegiance.

I, myself, have struggled over the past few years with my affiliation with the deonomination I have been associated with all my life. I have asked some really hard and sometimes painful questions. So far, I have decided that because of the way the Holy Spirit is leading me, even though there are still some questions, I am staying put.

But I have never ever questioned my allegiance to Christ, or my walk with him. For over thirty years, I have been a Karate instructor. As such, I have read and been exposed to some various religious thought outside the Christian faith. And I have seen that other religions have some of the same precepts as Christianity (treating each other fairly and with love, being a good citizen, taking care of our planet, etc). However, none of that will get you saved. And if you believe that your soul needs saving, that your only hope lies in trusting the only One who claimed to be God, then I don’t think there’s an alternative.

I have an acquaintance who, after many years in a Protestant denomination, decided to become a Catholic. He has his reasons, and I respect his opinions. But the flip side of that is, one of the associate pastors at my church used to be a Catholic, was raised a Catholic, but made a choice as an adult to leave that church. I respect his opinions and reasons as well.

Oh, and I agree that we should treat atheists (and Muslims, Buddhists, Hindi, Mormons, Republicans, Democrats, etc etc etc) with Christian love and respect.

Mike

TonyRush - 11 March 2008 07:24 PM

Deon, it’s interesting that you chose to only respond to the parts of my post with which you “had a bone to pick”.  No comment on my answer to the actual question in the topic thread?

But, in response, I’ll simply say this:  YES, YES, YES!  It’s my observation that most Christians hold their particular set of beliefs—not because they actually arrived at them through conscious choice, introspection and comparing other belief systems—but because of social factors such as where they were raised, what their parents believed, etc.

So, yes, Deon, I’m guilty as charged.  If I were to place a bet, I’d say that there is a higher percentage of Buddhists or atheists who CHOSE their beliefs through “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking” than fundamentalist Christians.  If you disagree, that’s certainly your prerogative.

As a Christian, I believe what I do after hours and hours of study and prayer, not because some preacher told me something.

Then you’re an exception which is obviously why you reacted to my comments the way you did.

But, since you bring up your own personal introspection as an example, I’ll ask the same question:  did you initially choose Christianity as a result of “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking”?  Or are the “hours and hours of study and prayer” something that you started doing AFTER choosing Christianity as belief system?

That’s what I’m referring to.  I don’t doubt at all that there are a great many Christians who spend hours studying every day.  But, at the risk of being redundant, it’s my observation that many people choose Christianity as their “default” belief because of various social factors.  Conversely, the people I know who converted to, say, Buddhism as an adult tend to be people who actually chose that set of beliefs very deliberately as a result of comparative study and conscious thinking.

Tony

I don’t know about others, but as for me, I didn’t choose Christianity, or God. I didn’t study it, seek after God or any of his ways. I was living my own life at large my way when Jesus found me and sought after me and saved me. It was all his doing. God chose me.

Kelly Fogarty

Kelly Fogarty - 12 March 2008 09:29 PM

TonyRush - 11 March 2008 07:24 PM

Deon, it’s interesting that you chose to only respond to the parts of my post with which you “had a bone to pick”.  No comment on my answer to the actual question in the topic thread?

But, in response, I’ll simply say this:  YES, YES, YES!  It’s my observation that most Christians hold their particular set of beliefs—not because they actually arrived at them through conscious choice, introspection and comparing other belief systems—but because of social factors such as where they were raised, what their parents believed, etc.

So, yes, Deon, I’m guilty as charged.  If I were to place a bet, I’d say that there is a higher percentage of Buddhists or atheists who CHOSE their beliefs through “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking” than fundamentalist Christians.  If you disagree, that’s certainly your prerogative.

As a Christian, I believe what I do after hours and hours of study and prayer, not because some preacher told me something.

Then you’re an exception which is obviously why you reacted to my comments the way you did.

But, since you bring up your own personal introspection as an example, I’ll ask the same question:  did you initially choose Christianity as a result of “a great deal of introspection, conscious thought and critical thinking”?  Or are the “hours and hours of study and prayer” something that you started doing AFTER choosing Christianity as belief system?

That’s what I’m referring to.  I don’t doubt at all that there are a great many Christians who spend hours studying every day.  But, at the risk of being redundant, it’s my observation that many people choose Christianity as their “default” belief because of various social factors.  Conversely, the people I know who converted to, say, Buddhism as an adult tend to be people who actually chose that set of beliefs very deliberately as a result of comparative study and conscious thinking.

Tony

I don’t know about others, but as for me, I didn’t choose Christianity, or God. I didn’t study it, seek after God or any of his ways. I was living my own life at large my way when Jesus found me and sought after me and saved me. It was all his doing. God chose me.

Kelly Fogarty

Did He just choose you, or does He seek out and choose everybody?

Kelly Fogarty - 12 March 2008 09:29 PM

I don’t know about others, but as for me, I didn’t choose Christianity, or God. I didn’t study it, seek after God or any of his ways. I was living my own life at large my way when Jesus found me and sought after me and saved me. It was all his doing. God chose me.

Hmm.....I respect anyone’s right to believe that type of language if they want to.  But, it seems to me that you’re taking a fairly passive position in your experience.

Practically speaking, of course you chose Christianity.  You chose to align yourself with the teachings of Christ.  No one forced you to do it (nor could they have).  You made a conscious choice to be a Christian. 

I don’t how to understand the idea that you had nothing to do with it.

Tony

When we get “saved” is when we accept Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross.  He made provision on the cross for everyone.  Now, not everyone receives salvation because they don’t accept the free gift that He has already provided.  He did His part on the Cross.  We do our part by accepting his sacrifice.  I agree with Tony.  It is a decision, a conscious choice.  So is rejecting salvation.

TonyRush - 13 March 2008 04:52 PM

Kelly Fogarty - 12 March 2008 09:29 PM

I don’t know about others, but as for me, I didn’t choose Christianity, or God. I didn’t study it, seek after God or any of his ways. I was living my own life at large my way when Jesus found me and sought after me and saved me. It was all his doing. God chose me.

Hmm.....I respect anyone’s right to believe that type of language if they want to.  But, it seems to me that you’re taking a fairly passive position in your experience.

Practically speaking, of course you chose Christianity.  You chose to align yourself with the teachings of Christ.  No one forced you to do it (nor could they have).  You made a conscious choice to be a Christian. 

I don’t how to understand the idea that you had nothing to do with it.

Tony

I think we had this dicussion a while back, Tony, if I’m not mistaken.
I don’t mean to say that I was just walking down the street minding my own business when all of a sudden BAM!! God saved me. Of course it doesn’t happen that way, a person has to get lost before he can get saved.

Yes, I did aknowledge my sinful state with remorse and repentence AFTER the Holy Spirit showed me that I was lost, and asked Jesus to save me and come into my life and be my lord and savior. I did not , however, seek after Him or search for “truth” or dwell on spiritual things much at all till His conviction came upon me, which lasted about a week before I accepted Jesus as savior and Lord.

I don’t want to give the impression that anyone elses experience is not just as valid as mine, to the contrary, I love hearing other’s salvation testimonies. This is just how the Lord saved me.

Kelly Fogarty

Kelly, your salvation experience would be refered to as Monergistic Regeneration.  Sola Gloria Deo!  Completly biblical, although most here will not agree.

Back to the thread.......Be sure and celebrate National Atheist Day, April 1st.

The fool has said in his heart, There is no God.  Psalm 14:1

Not that you have to go out and call every atheist you meet a fool, .......just so you know who you are dealing with, in God’s eyes.