I really don’t know a lot about the Whig Party, other than that the Republican Party replaced them. It seems to me that the Whig Party veered so far from the peoples vision and standards that they deemed it necessary to form a new party. Now some of our friends in here claim that the Republican Party left them, but, as far as I can tell, they left one party to go to another one that is directly opposed to their moral convictions, and over time their moral convictions seem to be leaning towards the Democrat Party.
That is not what I want to discuss though. My question is, rather than doing something as illogical as going to a party in direct opposition with my moral beliefs, when is it time to start looking for an independent party that we Conservatives can get behind. If McCain gets the nomination, as it appears he is on the way to doing, we will have lost forever the conservative basis of what we believe should be in the political party we belong to. Once it is lost, there is no going back to get it. It just doesn’t work that way. Our opponents are perfect examples of this. They do not get neutral, they get more and more liberal as each year goes by. They will never again be the Democrat Party of JFK, or Harry Truman. If McCain wins the nomination we will never again be the party of Reagan, or Eisenhower.
So, when is it time to make a stand. I would rather lose the Whitehouse than lose our standards.
I really don’t know a lot about the Whig Party, other than that the Republican Party replaced them. It seems to me that the Whig Party veered so far from the peoples vision and standards that they deemed it necessary to form a new party. Now some of our friends in here claim that the Republican Party left them, but, as far as I can tell, they left one party to go to another one that is directly opposed to their moral convictions, and over time their moral convictions seem to be leaning towards the Democrat Party.
That is not what I want to discuss though. My question is, rather than doing something as illogical as going to a party in direct opposition with my moral beliefs, when is it time to start looking for an independent party that we Conservatives can get behind. If McCain gets the nomination, as it appears he is on the way to doing, we will have lost forever the conservative basis of what we believe should be in the political party we belong to. Once it is lost, there is no going back to get it. It just doesn’t work that way. Our opponents are perfect examples of this. They do not get neutral, they get more and more liberal as each year goes by. They will never again be the Democrat Party of JFK, or Harry Truman. If McCain wins the nomination we will never again be the party of Reagan, or Eisenhower.
So, when is it time to make a stand. I would rather lose the Whitehouse than lose our standards.
For a long time It has seemed to me that the Republicans of today remind me of the democrats of the 30’s and 40’s. I fear for what the Republican party will be like in 50 years or so? If the Lord doesn’t return by then, will we be as of the Democrats of today? The only good thing I can see out of all this is that we are growing faster and closer to the Lord’s return.
I really don’t know a lot about the Whig Party, other than that the Republican Party replaced them. It seems to me that the Whig Party veered so far from the peoples vision and standards that they deemed it necessary to form a new party. Now some of our friends in here claim that the Republican Party left them, but, as far as I can tell, they left one party to go to another one that is directly opposed to their moral convictions, and over time their moral convictions seem to be leaning towards the Democrat Party.
That is not what I want to discuss though. My question is, rather than doing something as illogical as going to a party in direct opposition with my moral beliefs, when is it time to start looking for an independent party that we Conservatives can get behind. If McCain gets the nomination, as it appears he is on the way to doing, we will have lost forever the conservative basis of what we believe should be in the political party we belong to. Once it is lost, there is no going back to get it. It just doesn’t work that way. Our opponents are perfect examples of this. They do not get neutral, they get more and more liberal as each year goes by. They will never again be the Democrat Party of JFK, or Harry Truman. If McCain wins the nomination we will never again be the party of Reagan, or Eisenhower.
So, when is it time to make a stand. I would rather lose the Whitehouse than lose our standards.
So in your opinion, does this mean that the Republican party feel they have to be moderate to win or does this mean that the Republicans think there are not enough “true conservatives” to matter to them.
I do not feel the Republican party has left its core values. I do feel that there are many who are registered as Republicans today that would be more appropriately labeled conservative Democrats and conservative Independents. What is the difference between a conservative Independent and a moderate Republican?
If we are to stand on our “core values” shouldn’t we define what they are? Shouldn’t we put up a candidate who embraces said values. In this election
year we ,as conservatives, have been forced to choose between an occult member and an abortion proponent, among others. Is this the best candidates we can field?
We want to elect a “supreme conservative”, well we don’t have one. Are you saying we should just refuse to support a candidate, and allow the two most threatening liberal candidates that we have ever seen to take control of our country? I am not crazy about John McCain for president but I will surely vote for him over the democratic alternative.
The Rush Limbaugh crowd/"supreme conservatives” would rather stand firm on their (republican) principles even though they have no such candidate. Than to compromise and support someone who is electable but maybe a little bit less than a staunch conservative. It seems to me we have a split in our beloved party. Both sides of which, want to uphold the banner of conservatism. The problem with this is that both sides really are conservatives in “their beliefs”. Christian conservatives feel, more vehemently, the need for a president who will protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to life, than someone who would master the economy.
So, there is a split in our party. Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter both stated they would rather vote for Hillary Clinton than John McCain, why isn’t somebody questioning their loyalty to the Republican party? They stated in their own words they would rather give the White House to the Democrats than vote for John McCain. The Democrats already have a majority in both houses of Congress, which can be accredited to the same unwillingness to compromise by “true republicans”.
If staunch Republicans are going to adopt the cry and pout mentality of Rush Limbaugh, then by all means lets go ahead and give the White House to the Democrats.
But if we want to protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to human life,
which are MY core concerns in this election, then we had better be willing to compromise.
I do not feel the Republican party has left its core values. I do feel that there are many who are registered as Republicans today that would be more appropriately labeled conservative Democrats and conservative Independents. What is the difference between a conservative Independent and a moderate Republican?
If we are to stand on our “core values” shouldn’t we define what they are? Shouldn’t we put up a candidate who embraces said values. In this election
year we ,as conservatives, have been forced to choose between an occult member and an abortion proponent, among others. Is this the best candidates we can field?
We want to elect a “supreme conservative”, well we don’t have one. Are you saying we should just refuse to support a candidate, and allow the two most threatening liberal candidates that we have ever seen to take control of our country? I am not crazy about John McCain for president but I will surely vote for him over the democratic alternative.
The Rush Limbaugh crowd/"supreme conservatives” would rather stand firm on their (republican) principles even though they have no such candidate. Than to compromise and support someone who is electable but maybe a little bit less than a staunch conservative. It seems to me we have a split in our beloved party. Both sides of which, want to uphold the banner of conservatism. The problem with this is that both sides really are conservatives in “their beliefs”. Christian conservatives feel, more vehemently, the need for a president who will protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to life, than someone who would master the economy.
So, there is a split in our party. Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter both stated they would rather vote for Hillary Clinton than John McCain, why isn’t somebody questioning their loyalty to the Republican party? They stated in their own words they would rather give the White House to the Democrats than vote for John McCain. The Democrats already have a majority in both houses of Congress, which can be accredited to the same unwillingness to compromise by “true republicans”.
If staunch Republicans are going to adopt the cry and pout mentality of Rush Limbaugh, then by all means lets go ahead and give the White House to the Democrats.
But if we want to protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to human life,
which are MY core concerns in this election, then we had better be willing to compromise.
Thank you and God bless
I wonder how they are going to feel about voting for Obama over McCain, because it looks as if that is going to be the decision.
I am not a McCain supporter, I did not vote for him in the primary However, I will vote for McCain over Hillary or Obama and I pray that christian conservatives as well as conservatives overall, will come around to that way of thinking.
We need to realize there is more earth shattering things that can happen with Hillary & Obama at the helm. The War On Terror, is a very important factor and Obama has no experience, and for that matter neither does Hillary.
There are several liberal Supreme Court Justices who are over 70 yrs old and are likely ready to step down, as soon as a democratic president is chosen. If that happens, you can rest assured that for the next 20 yrs or so, our fight for the rights of the unborn will come to a hault, because the liberals will control the Supreme Court.
Also, to pull out of Iraq(whether or not we wished we had started that in the first place) too soon would be a huge mistake. We are now fighting Al Queda there and if we leave, we will allow them to take over Iraq and let them know we have waved the white flag and surrendered to them. I don’t think anyone really wants that to happen.
It is imperative to our conservative beliefs to quit fighting among ourselves and pull together at this time and go with the only Republican that has any sort of chance to win the Republican nomination as well as a chance to beat either Hillary or Obama.
McCain has said he will appoint judges such as Alito to the bench. He has also said he will keep the Bush Tax Cut plan,and he has a good voting record when it comes to the abortion issue, and he wants to shore up our boarders. I know there are other important things that he doesn’t agree with us on, but guess what? neither do either of the democratic nominees and they do not have our views when it comes to the things McCain sides with us over.
Which is more important, letting our voice be heard as to how we feel, which will put a democrat in the White House. Or protecting our innocent unborn, as well as our country by pulling our party together and fighting to defeat the democratic nominees.
I do not feel the Republican party has left its core values. I do feel that there are many who are registered as Republicans today that would be more appropriately labeled conservative Democrats and conservative Independents. What is the difference between a conservative Independent and a moderate Republican?
If we are to stand on our “core values” shouldn’t we define what they are? Shouldn’t we put up a candidate who embraces said values. In this election
year we ,as conservatives, have been forced to choose between an occult member and an abortion proponent, among others. Is this the best candidates we can field?
We want to elect a “supreme conservative”, well we don’t have one. Are you saying we should just refuse to support a candidate, and allow the two most threatening liberal candidates that we have ever seen to take control of our country? I am not crazy about John McCain for president but I will surely vote for him over the democratic alternative.
The Rush Limbaugh crowd/"supreme conservatives” would rather stand firm on their (republican) principles even though they have no such candidate. Than to compromise and support someone who is electable but maybe a little bit less than a staunch conservative. It seems to me we have a split in our beloved party. Both sides of which, want to uphold the banner of conservatism. The problem with this is that both sides really are conservatives in “their beliefs”. Christian conservatives feel, more vehemently, the need for a president who will protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to life, than someone who would master the economy.
So, there is a split in our party. Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter both stated they would rather vote for Hillary Clinton than John McCain, why isn’t somebody questioning their loyalty to the Republican party? They stated in their own words they would rather give the White House to the Democrats than vote for John McCain. The Democrats already have a majority in both houses of Congress, which can be accredited to the same unwillingness to compromise by “true republicans”.
If staunch Republicans are going to adopt the cry and pout mentality of Rush Limbaugh, then by all means lets go ahead and give the White House to the Democrats.
But if we want to protect the sanctity of marriage and the right to human life,
which are MY core concerns in this election, then we had better be willing to compromise.
Thank you and God bless
You are missing the big picture. I’m not about party loyalty. I’m a Conservative before I am a Republican. You mention Rush and Coulter not being loyal to the Republican Party. Is it better to be loyal to your party or your convictions? Convictions any day.
Once we compromise our convictions, we can never get them back. I’m not real sure just where McCain is on abortion. He voted FOR embryonic stem cell research. Just where do we compromise?
Now, if we get our act together and get a Conservative majority in the House and Senate, then we can protect ourselves against Liberal judges. Of course we would have to get some Conservatives in there with some back bone.
BTW, it is NOT a pout and cry attitude. It is a NO COMPROMISE attitude. There is a wise old adage that says to pick your battles. There comes a time when you MUST stand your ground and not compromise. Remember it was Bush senior who gave us Sutter. I’m not convinced that McCain wouldn’t give us a couple more of them, and that is no worse than what Hillary or Obama would give us. So, again, just where do we compromise? What do we get in return for that compromise? Rush is not the only one who questions just what a McCain Presidency would do to the Country. Count me in as one of those.
Is winning the White House worth compromising our convictions?
McCain has until November to prove to me that I will not be compromising what I am really believing in.
BTW, I think that we all know that Coulter is just getting headlines by saying that she would vote for Hillary.
I agree with you Bro. Deon ....I am just concerned because there is no one left. I have supported Mike Huckabee and Fred Thompson since the beginning. Mike is still in there. I voted for him in the Super Tuesday primary. I am not sure if McCain will give us a strait conservative vote on “Christian Issues” either. I do feel that he will be more in line with us than Hillary or Obama. (Heck, Obama is a Palestinian sympathizer!) I am still praying for Huckabee to receive a miracle for his campaign from God! I know some folks on here don’t like Huck’. Brother Cerce compared him to the Clinton machine. That scared me! If Huck doesn’t have a chance Bro Deon, what are we supposed to do? We can’t just not vote.
This is the point that I have been trying to make. So many strict conservatives are so up in arms over McCain, where is their candidate? Who are we supposed to put up against the most energized Democratic party we have ever seen. This is why I am pointing out the need we have to solidify and unify behind whomever our candidate is going to be sooner rather than later. Rush and Ann are good at complaining....where is their solution? Or do they just need ratings?
I agree with you Bro. Deon ....I am just concerned because there is no one left. I have supported Mike Huckabee and Fred Thompson since the beginning. Mike is still in there. I voted for him in the Super Tuesday primary. I am not sure if McCain will give us a strait conservative vote on “Christian Issues” either. I do feel that he will be more in line with us than Hillary or Obama. (Heck, Obama is a Palestinian sympathizer!) I am still praying for Huckabee to receive a miracle for his campaign from God! I know some folks on here don’t like Huck’. Brother Cerce compared him to the Clinton machine. That scared me! If Huck doesn’t have a chance Bro Deon, what are we supposed to do? We can’t just not vote.
This is the point that I have been trying to make. So many strict conservatives are so up in arms over McCain, where is their candidate? Who are we supposed to put up against the most energized Democratic party we have ever seen. This is why I am pointing out the need we have to solidify and unify behind whomever our candidate is going to be sooner rather than later. Rush and Ann are good at complaining....where is their solution? Or do they just need ratings?
Clear Creek & Deon
Just to let you both know, Cliff and I have watched most of the debates and have really done a lot of homework in this year’s election.
I’m not sure how much you both have looked into this, however, you both have made mention that you don’t know about John McCain’s stance on abortion. He has a good voting record when it comes to this issue. He has consistently voted pro-life and has made comments that he would put judges such as Alito on the bench should he become president.
Neither Cliff or myself has been a John McCain supporter. We both really liked Fred Thompson but when that didn’t work out we had to start searching the websites and getting to know the other candidates. I have spent a lot of time researching this, and seeing that John McCain & Mike Huckabee are the only two left, John McCain is who I am hoping wins now. It doesn’t look like Mike Huckabee stands a chance, especially after Tuesday’s primaries where McCain took all 3, but beyond that I don’t believe Huckabee would have a chance against either Obama or Clinton.
Deon, I know that you are concerned about Stem Cell Research, but it is not even being considered any more, because President Bush had researchers to continue searching for a viable solution, and they found one that works even better than the embryonic stem cells, so that is not even an issue in this election. Out of all of the debates I have heard, there has been no mention of that subject.
What bothers me is the fact that so many christians, well meaning as they are, are determined to not vote for John McCain. If Obama or Clinton wins the election our fight for unborn children will be very short lived. There are 3 judges on the bench who are over 70 yrs old and are probably just waiting for a democrat to get into office so they can retire. Again, John McCain has said on more than one occasion that he is against abortion and will fight for rights of the unborn. He has also stated on more than one occasion he will choose judges like Alito for the Supreme Court. He is also for remaining in Iraq until the job is done. Leaving too soon will send a message to Al Qaeda that they have won and can take over Iraq, and we can’t do that to Iraq, the USA or Isreal.
If you haven’t already, look up Barrack Obama’s church website, I think it’s tucc.org I think you will be surpised at what you read.
Anyway, everyone has to do what they believe is best. as for me, I have to go with the one person I believe will do the right thing where Pro-life is concerned as well as the only one I think has any sort of chance against both democratic nominees.
I hope that this has helped you both. Again, you both sounded as if you didn’t know certain things about John McCain and I wanted to let you know what I have found out in my research and endless hours of watching boring debates (LOL).
I agree with you Bro. Deon ....I am just concerned because there is no one left. I have supported Mike Huckabee and Fred Thompson since the beginning. Mike is still in there. I voted for him in the Super Tuesday primary. I am not sure if McCain will give us a strait conservative vote on “Christian Issues” either. I do feel that he will be more in line with us than Hillary or Obama. (Heck, Obama is a Palestinian sympathizer!) I am still praying for Huckabee to receive a miracle for his campaign from God! I know some folks on here don’t like Huck’. Brother Cerce compared him to the Clinton machine. That scared me! If Huck doesn’t have a chance Bro Deon, what are we supposed to do? We can’t just not vote.
This is the point that I have been trying to make. So many strict conservatives are so up in arms over McCain, where is their candidate? Who are we supposed to put up against the most energized Democratic party we have ever seen. This is why I am pointing out the need we have to solidify and unify behind whomever our candidate is going to be sooner rather than later. Rush and Ann are good at complaining....where is their solution? Or do they just need ratings?
Clear Creek & Deon
Just to let you both know, Cliff and I have watched most of the debates and have really done a lot of homework in this year’s election.
I’m not sure how much you both have looked into this, however, you both have made mention that you don’t know about John McCain’s stance on abortion. He has a good voting record when it comes to this issue. He has consistently voted pro-life and has made comments that he would put judges such as Alito on the bench should he become president.
Neither Cliff or myself has been a John McCain supporter. We both really liked Fred Thompson but when that didn’t work out we had to start searching the websites and getting to know the other candidates. I have spent a lot of time researching this, and seeing that John McCain & Mike Huckabee are the only two left, John McCain is who I am hoping wins now. It doesn’t look like Mike Huckabee stands a chance, especially after Tuesday’s primaries where McCain took all 3, but beyond that I don’t believe Huckabee would have a chance against either Obama or Clinton.
Deon, I know that you are concerned about Stem Cell Research, but it is not even being considered any more, because President Bush had researchers to continue searching for a viable solution, and they found one that works even better than the embryonic stem cells, so that is not even an issue in this election. Out of all of the debates I have heard, there has been no mention of that subject.
What bothers me is the fact that so many christians, well meaning as they are, are determined to not vote for John McCain. If Obama or Clinton wins the election our fight for unborn children will be very short lived. There are 3 judges on the bench who are over 70 yrs old and are probably just waiting for a democrat to get into office so they can retire. Again, John McCain has said on more than one occasion that he is against abortion and will fight for rights of the unborn. He has also stated on more than one occasion he will choose judges like Alito for the Supreme Court. He is also for remaining in Iraq until the job is done. Leaving too soon will send a message to Al Qaeda that they have won and can take over Iraq, and we can’t do that to Iraq, the USA or Isreal.
If you haven’t already, look up Barrack Obama’s church website, I think it’s tucc.org I think you will be surpised at what you read.
Anyway, everyone has to do what they believe is best. as for me, I have to go with the one person I believe will do the right thing where Pro-life is concerned as well as the only one I think has any sort of chance against both democratic nominees.
I hope that this has helped you both. Again, you both sounded as if you didn’t know certain things about John McCain and I wanted to let you know what I have found out in my research and endless hours of watching boring debates (LOL).
Anita,
I watched every second of the debates. McCain came off very cocky and arrogant. That turned me completely off, as well as he is being known for being a hot head with a real temper. This man would have his finger on the RED button.
The fact is that McCain has voted pro-life 80% of the time. That is certainly better than Clinton or Obama, but don’t we have a right to expect much more from a Conservative?
You say what bothers you is so many “Christians, well meaning as they are”. It’s not a matter of being well meaning, this is just as serious business for us as it is for McCain supporters, maybe even more so. The problem is that I
DO know certain things about McCain, and THAT is what troubles me. We are certainly in a lose - lose situation in this election.
I have read ALL the information about Obama, his church, and his Pastor. I expect that of him, and Hillary for that matter. I just expect better from the Conservatives. I think that the blinders have been pulled over the eyes of many Republicans when it comes to McCain and they are just not seeing the dangers he represents.
Don’t forget that if we legalize the 20 million illegals like he wants to, it will probably sway the electorate sufficiently for the Dems to take political control forever.
So, again, when do we stand and say enough is enough, and we will finally take a stand. When do we say I cannot compromise that much? When do we say that we just cannot trust this man any more than we can trust the opponents.
I certainly understand the way you feel about John McCain, I find him irritating and cocky as well. That is one of the reasons I did not vote for him in the primaries. However, he is the one who will very shortly win the Republican nomination and giving into the democrats now will totally destroy our chances in the future.
If you are worried about illegal immigrants taking over this country, that is going to happen much quicker under the presidency of Obama or Clinton, one of which wants to give them driver’s license. John McCain came around to the fact we need to shore up our boarders first and foremost, so he has shown that he is listening to the American public.
What I am praying that will happen is John McCain will name a strong conservative as his running mate. At this time there are several names being batted about and they are all conservative. With having a strong VP as conservative, and the conservatives lending their voices and making their feelings known, we will have a far greater chance of things not getting out of hand, and staying more like they are now, than if we get Clinton or Obama and an equally strong democrat as their running mate.
I understand your concerns, I am also concerned, and I never meant to imply in anyway that your stance is not important to you, I know that it is. I am just concerned that having one of those democrats in office is going to take our country down a path that we cannot recover from at all.
Don’t forget that if we legalize the 20 million illegals like he wants to, it will probably sway the electorate sufficiently for the Dems to take political control forever.
So, again, when do we stand and say enough is enough, and we will finally take a stand. When do we say I cannot compromise that much? When do we say that we just cannot trust this man any more than we can trust the opponents.
McCain has acknowledged that the former plan to make a way for the illegals in this country is now “off the table” - having been rejected by the American people and his Party. He has indicated that he will not be pursuing or advocating that plan.
I was concerned about his stand on embryonic stem cell research but, that too, is now off the table. New research has now made embryonic stem cell technology an old technology. That is why the Democrats are not mentioning it at all, as they have in past elections, and we are not seeing images of Christopher Reeves in political ads.
I cannot say that I do not trust McCain any more than his Democrat opponents - other than to say that I fully trust THEM to be anti-Iraq War, pro-abortion, anti-fiscal conservatism, pro ACLU, pro NEA, pro “Move On.org” and pro activist Judges.
Why would anyone not want to cast a vote that will make it more difficult for them to take control?
McCain’s anti-abortion voting record, stance on the Iraq War and on fiscal conservatism - with his pledge to appoint Judges like Alito and Roberts - makes him the most conservative choice in this race.
It was just announced that Mitt Romney is now endorsing John McCain.
I am not a McCain supporter. I did not vote for him in the primary. I wanted Fred Thompson, the only TRUE conservative in the race, according to Rush Limbaugh and others. But President Bush and many others have labeled McCain as a conservative.
I will vote for McCain over Hillary or Obama, even if I have to hold my nose while doing it.
Tough question - Do some of us hold steadfastly to the commitment we made to ourselves years ago to only vote for a candidate we fully agree with - because we are stubborn and refuse to change the commitment we made to ourselves years ago in a different world and with different choices available to us then - or because that decision really serves our country and ourselves better TODAY?
Are we really that rigid in general in our lives?
When we go into a restaurant and we don’t find what we wanted on the menu - do we refuse to eat?
When we go to the gas pump and learn the price has just risen 10 cents overnight - do we drive away without fuel?
As a pastor of a church having to hold 3 Sunday morning services, do we enlarge our seating capacity from 200 to 500 - or do we refuse to cooperate with the approved building project because the Board and congregation would not approve the 3000 seat auditorium we wanted to have?
And, when we settle for the least objectionable choices each day - do we consider it compromise - or just being practical and productive?
It is good to stand by principles and be determined.
But remember - determination is a strong will. Stubbornness is a strong won’t.
[ Edited: 14 February 2008 01:53 PM by CliffCerce ]
Don’t forget that if we legalize the 20 million illegals like he wants to, it will probably sway the electorate sufficiently for the Dems to take political control forever.
So, again, when do we stand and say enough is enough, and we will finally take a stand. When do we say I cannot compromise that much? When do we say that we just cannot trust this man any more than we can trust the opponents.
McCain has acknowledged that the former plan to make a way for the illegals in this country is now “off the table” - having been rejected by the American people and his Party. He has indicated that he will not be pursuing or advocating that plan.
I was concerned about his stand on embryonic stem cell research but, that too, is now off the table. New research has now made embryonic stem cell technology an old technology. That is why the Democrats are not mentioning it at all, as they have in past elections, and we are not seeing images of Christopher Reeves in political ads.
I cannot say that I do not trust McCain any more than his Democrat opponents - other than to say that I fully trust THEM to be anti-Iraq War, pro-abortion, anti-fiscal conservatism, pro ACLU, pro NEA, pro “Move On.org” and pro activist Judges.
Why would anyone not want to cast a vote that will make it more difficult for them to take control?
McCain’s anti-abortion voting record, stance on the Iraq War and on fiscal conservatism - with his pledge to appoint Judges like Alito and Roberts - makes him the most conservative choice in this race.
It was just announced that Mitt Romney is now endorsing John McCain.
I am not a McCain supporter. I did not vote for him in the primary. I wanted Fred Thompson, the only TRUE conservative in the race, according to Rush Limbaugh and others. But President Bush and many others have labeled McCain as a conservative.
I will vote for McCain over Hillary or Obama, even if I have to hold my nose while doing it.
Tough question - Do some of us hold steadfastly to the commitment we made to ourselves years ago to only vote for a candidate we fully agree with - because we are stubborn and refuse to change the commitment we made to ourselves years ago in a different world and with different choices available to us then - or because that decision really serves our country and ourselves better TODAY?
Are we really that rigid in general in our lives?
When we go into a restaurant and we don’t find what we wanted on the menu - do we refuse to eat?
When we go to the gas pump and learn the price has just risen 10 cents overnight - do we drive away without fuel?
As a pastor of a church having to hold 3 Sunday morning services, do we enlarge our seating capacity from 200 to 500 - or do we refuse to cooperate with the approved building project because the Board and congregation would not approve the 3000 seat auditorium we wanted to have?
And, when we settle for the least objectionable choices each day - do we consider it compromise - or just being practical and productive?
It is good to stand by principles and be determined.
But remember - determination is a strong will. Stubbornness is a strong won’t.
Let me see if I get this straight, because if I do, you may have changed my mind.
I’m not sure that McCain doesn’t have election year Conservatism, so I’m not sure that I can believe all of his rhetoric. Remember, George Bush senior said “READ MY LIPS”. Also, if you compromise your principles you are determined, but if I stand on my principles, I’m stubborn.
So, when I go to a restaurant and they don’t have what I want to eat, do I just settle for something less or do I go to another restaurant that has what I want? In everyday life, I go to another place that has what I want. If I wanted steak and went to Ponderosa and they said that they were out of steak, would I settle for chicken? I don’t think so.
If the gas price has risen 10 cents a gallon at the gas station I always go to, but the gas station across the street is still at the same price as yesterday, do I not drive across the street to get the better price? Of course I do, and so would you.
This election year is far more important than our general lives, so doesn’t it deserve far more commitment to what we are doing? Yes, McCain has said that he will pick Conservative judges, but so did Bush senior and we got Sutter. Suddenly McCain SAYS he will appoint Conservative judges, but what if he slips back into his Liberal ways. The Republican Party is in big trouble and is being blinded by the leaders of the party. Like I said before, this is a lose - lose proposition this year.
Also, if you compromise your principles you are determined, but if I stand on my principles, I’m stubborn.
No, that is not what I meant, Deon. I’m not saying you are stubborn. You have every right to stand by your principles, and that’s one of the things I like about you.
Deon Unthank - 14 February 2008 03:05 PM
So, when I go to a restaurant and they don’t have what I want to eat, do I just settle for something less or do I go to another restaurant that has what I want? In everyday life, I go to another place that has what I want. If I wanted steak and went to Ponderosa and they said that they were out of steak, would I settle for chicken? I don’t think so.
The analogy would be a little different. If you were locked in to having important business meetings at this restaurant and you needed the ability to book those meetings - and if there were only 2 restaurants in town big enough to be able to host your meetings and the other served poison....that would be closer.
If Ponderosa knew you were leaving because they ran out of steak and if they wouldn’t allow you to book your meetings there any longer because they decided to take you as less than serious - you certainly wouldn’t go to the other restaurant. You may have no choice but to try in the future to get back the clout you once had with Ponderosa - but you might never actually achieve it.
I’m afraid the Republican Party may lean more toward the moderates and the Independents in future years if the social conservatives support a 3rd party this year. Certainly, there are still some in the Party upset with social conservatives for rejecting Bob Dole in 1996 (when supporting instead long-shot Alan Keyes) and actually handing an unearned victory to Bill Clinton.
The fear of the social conservatives doing that to them again has already made us somewhat estranged from the party. If someone tells you, in your dealings with them, that it is their way or the highway - your tendency would probably be to tell them to take a walk. And I’m afraid the Republican Party is starting to see the social conservatives as a group that cannot be pleased.
It’s a funny thing about principles. We should never change them, unless we see that they are wrong - but the application of those principles sometimes changes over the years. They sometimes guide us to do things a little differently, as the world changes.
Many evangelical churches were against the wearing of makeup by women years ago when the wearing of it made them appear to be a streetwalker. The issue was their testimony, and the church took the position that a woman should not paint her face in a manner that might cause someone to automatically assume she was a woman of the street - when some were adopting that classic look of those times. Preachers even preached about Jezebel painting her face, and I knew of churches in the 50’s that even taught that a woman was being a Jezebel if she wore makeup.
But now, virtually every woman wears makeup. But, the principle has not changed - just the application of it. A woman would still be wise today to not dress or carry herself in a way that society would think she was a streetwalker. Characteristic hot shorts and extremely low-cut tops of various identifying color schemes - with a certain style of makeup to match - would not be a good testimony today - but just the wearing of makeup today would not equate to the same thing as it may have some 60 years ago.
Principles don’t change - but their application often does.
As far as whether McCain keeps his word - you make a good point, Deon. But I believe Hillary and Obama WILL definitely keep their word in regard to the war in Iraq, abortion rights, the NEA, the ACLU, liberal judges, and so on.
If McCain breaks his word, he will fare no better than George Bush Sr did over “Read my Lips” - and will be dealt with severely as he seeks a second term. And, I think he is smart enough to know that.
But one thing is for certain - I don’t want Hillary or Obama - and I don’t believe anyone but McCain can stop them at this point.
Given the choice, I’d rather trust him than them - and 1 of the 3 of them will likely be our next president.
McCain embraces more of my positions than Hillary and Obama. Not voting for McCain helps Hillary and Obama.
McCain gets my vote, though I wish there was another VIABLE choice.
